tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post5828318078024843564..comments2024-02-27T03:15:13.798-08:00Comments on Silver Goggles: The Inevitably of Imperialism: On Kyriarchy and How It Factors into SteampunkJhahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-9113141515065899992010-04-22T12:06:05.030-07:002010-04-22T12:06:05.030-07:00Singaapore has a complicated history of colonizati...Singaapore has a complicated history of colonization - it's been bounced around between various Nusantaran empires, razed to the ground by the Portuguese, and visited by Chinese traders. Its geographical position made it ideal for international relations.<br /><br />I shall have to read the Tremaire series now, to keep up with you on this discussion - it's getting beyond my scope!Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-860472158580102592010-04-22T10:42:42.131-07:002010-04-22T10:42:42.131-07:00The "Modern" Age brings a lot more into ...The "Modern" Age brings a lot more into play and I do think it's possible, but perhaps Singapore is probably a example what with being an ex-colony (firstly by the Chinese, later by the British). The ex-colonial history gives it quite a lot of international ties that it may not have had otherwise. But I'm not really qualified to talk about Singaporean history so I should probably stop there.<br /><br />I'll add that I meant World Player in the sense that the Emperor of China was nervously asking the opinion of the British diplomat for fear of offending Britain - that rather damp little island a million miles away with barely a scrap of land to its name. Certainly rich for its size, but by no means capable of taking on the might of Chinese Empire and its many dragons.<br /><br />The problem with Temeraire is that I think in some ways politics/resources/power is something of a zero-sum game. (Barring the setting where you come up with the machine of infinite resources.) The Britain of Temeraire commands all the power and respect and fear and resources of the historical Napoleonic Era one of our history with no obvious means of getting those resources. Without the colonies, why would Britain have developed its insanely big navy? One can in theory replace colonial resources with, I dunno, technical innovation, higher productivity, insanely good ships, magical pixie dust that turns gold into better gold and so forth. But it does need to be there.Jeannette Nghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10369533969456798125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-44847028074927809132010-04-20T07:16:59.002-07:002010-04-20T07:16:59.002-07:00That's an interesting point, one I've neve...That's an interesting point, one I've never heard. I do think it's possible to be a world player with no colonies, though - see Singapore: it's considered a first-world nation, and it's just an island.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-50848985435868660102010-04-20T04:36:14.361-07:002010-04-20T04:36:14.361-07:00True, though I do think the pull to create a Utopi...True, though I do think the pull to create a Utopian Ideal and the pull to create a flawed world in which to stage some fiction are opposed.<br /><br />And as an afterthought, there's the Temeraire series (which completely kills my previous point I suppose) in which there's very little colonisation since they all have Dragons that fight off the would-be colonising powers. The problem there, I believe, was that consequently the setting made very little sense since Novik still wanted Britain to be a World Player in the international politics of her books and have a huge navy, both of which make no sense without the colonies. The worldsetting is consequently a mess, but I suppose one could argue she's very well-intentioned.Jeannette Nghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10369533969456798125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-45682516753004310912010-04-19T18:41:00.604-07:002010-04-19T18:41:00.604-07:00While it's true that a story requires conflict...While it's true that a story requires conflict to be interesting, it seems lazy to assume that colonialism and imperialism will provide the impetus. It's also irresponsible to rely on stereotypes and Orientalist imagery to hold up the story, which happens quite a bit in fiction.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-38831531329248270132010-04-19T04:04:39.048-07:002010-04-19T04:04:39.048-07:00Just a brief point that fiction, at least, strive ...Just a brief point that fiction, at least, strive on conflict. Steampunk isn't just fiction and RPGs (both of which need conflict), granted, but a dash of imperialism and colonisation makes for good conflict which make for good stories. I wouldn't say it's a simple as this, but I suspect there's a dichotomy of sorts here that part of the steampunk community looks to the fiction to portray ideal worlds and the writers need fodder for conflict and battles and cultural tensions. I'm in the latter camp, personally, but that's a different story.Jeannette Nghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10369533969456798125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-39925820470678480072010-04-02T15:42:12.258-07:002010-04-02T15:42:12.258-07:00I forgot I had this post from last year on Steampu...I forgot I had this post from last year on Steampunk:<br /><br />http://bankuei.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/undustrial-revolutions/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-53179050995584427112010-03-31T17:50:37.115-07:002010-03-31T17:50:37.115-07:00My next essay is actually going to deal with kyria...My next essay is actually going to deal with kyriarchy and imperialism in A:TLA, actually. And it is true, that the basic premise of A:TLA is that it is a universe which, although clearly embracing that age of industrialization, actively rejects imperialism. Thanks for dropping in! I hope you come back when my A:TLA post goes up!Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-28615503815306721692010-03-26T11:54:31.227-07:002010-03-26T11:54:31.227-07:00I remember having a conversation with a friend abo...I remember having a conversation with a friend about POC focal steampunk, and bringing up Avatar the Last Airbender. I pointed out that it had both steampunk stuff (airships! Coal clockwork tanks!) and imperialism. <br /><br />The big disjunct for him was that the series is <i>critical</i> of imperialism, instead of either blithely accepting or "ironically" accepting of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-63216831993139815982010-03-25T17:28:27.190-07:002010-03-25T17:28:27.190-07:00My apologies; that was how I read your response si...My apologies; that was how I read your response since you emphasized on the factor of chance and I was unsure what you were commenting on in my essay. Certainly what-ifs take into account little details - my main point in this essay is on how kyriarchy affects larger movements. Chance in alternate-history requires its own post! And several spin-off discussion threads.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-29467712667635429352010-03-25T15:57:22.230-07:002010-03-25T15:57:22.230-07:00I did not say that it was 'all up to chance an...I did not say that it was 'all up to chance and coincidence'- if that's what it came across as, that was not the intention. I mentioned chance solely to clarify that when one is planning out an alternate history - whether for steampunk fiction/rpg or any other genre - one has to also take into account that chance elements are *also* in the equation. <br /><br />History follows a rhythm to an extent, in part due to social forces, cultural osmosis, or what have you. Yes, event X could have gone a certain way, 'if only', but I did not that this was the only reason why an event occured, but merely a factor when constructing fictional histories/worlds.<br /><br />I did not say that people are 'absolved' of responsibility, or that revolutions were by chance. Considering that my maternal grandfather had worked and protested alongside both Jinnah and Gandhi against the British, I'd be pretty offended - and so would he - if someone said that all they fought for was down to 'chance'.Adnan De Beauvoirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471245868620317247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-45734484391703326962010-03-25T07:04:25.061-07:002010-03-25T07:04:25.061-07:00It is true that certain events in history are rand...It is true that certain events in history are random, caused by coincidence and chance. Certainly, our what-ifs involve changing some small detail - the flap of a butterfly's wings and all that. <br /><br />Nonetheless, if it were all up to chance and coincidence, then why does history repeat the same patterns over and over again? It's too easy to say "well, it could have gone either way due to some external, tiny, almost insignificant factor," and that absolves us of responsibility for taking events in hand and causing them in the first place. Revolutions don't start by chance; they start because people work hard to make them happen. Maybe the inspiration was by chance. But the overall movement is not.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-23778826457144130482010-03-25T02:37:27.791-07:002010-03-25T02:37:27.791-07:00'It can’t happen, because this is not a world ...'It can’t happen, because this is not a world that values cooperation. We don’t live in a world where I can find any basis for Nusantara. Not only that, but the cultural imprint left behind by the colonizers are so deep, my ideal Nusantara is difficult to imagine, because everyone in it speaks English and I no longer know the difference between East and West, between local and foreign. Sad, but true.'<br /><br /><br />Part of why history moves in certain patterns is also down to events that one can't always predict, that hideously simplified "butterfly wings" concept. Being in the 'right' time/place plays a role. Take the attempted assassination of Mussolini by Victoria Gibson. He only survived because he turned his head just as she had fired. Had he not, then World War 2 - and Italy - could have gone a different path.<br /><br />Perhaps the world you envisioned would go that way, perhaps it wouldn't. In alternative universe the Catholic Church is still burning future Giordano Brunos, or the Anarchists managed to make Spain an Anarchist utopia. What it comes down to is individual events that end up having significant consequences. Known that Empire X was like this in year Y doesn't mean that you can accurately predict the flow of hypothetical history. Harold II was killed at the Battle of Hastings either by an arrow to the eye (random) or by being trampled by the hooves of a horse (again, random). <br /><br />A friend and I were/are working on a fictional world where early Arab/Viking interactions lead to a European/African/Asian/Americas union where the predominant languages are Latin, Danish, and Arabic. The clothing, devices and overall flow of the world aren't static, and flow according to social forces, environmental changes, and necessity in times of conflict (Arabic variations on the wristwatch, for example). When constructing this world, we mention things like a loose pebble on a road in Copenhagen, or early Arab refrigeration techniques being used to hide a valuable document. Again, it's all random.Adnan De Beauvoirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471245868620317247noreply@blogger.com