tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post3397823380590267520..comments2024-02-27T03:15:13.798-08:00Comments on Silver Goggles: Countering VictorientalismJhahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-52206603552086022152010-08-07T12:25:50.100-07:002010-08-07T12:25:50.100-07:00I'm writing a novel around a concept I call Mu...I'm writing a novel around a concept I call Muslim Steampunk - although it is deliberately set in the context of 12th century Norman Sicily, where there was considerably cultural and intellectual contact between different faith groups, counterfactually leading to the invention of turbine steam power based on the Hero engine. I'm Muslim, familiar with the issue surrounding Orientalism, and unapologetically political - the book has an anti-imperial (and anti-authoritarian) agenda. Twelve months into the research so far, just starting with the writing. So here it goes...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-38850999434150970402010-03-20T10:07:02.026-07:002010-03-20T10:07:02.026-07:00See, I can understand Asian people using the term ...See, I can understand Asian people using the term "Oriental"... to capitalize on what's already been perpetuated.<br /><br />Not so much when white people try to use it on me to paint me as mysterious and wonderful. I'm normal.<br /><br />And yea, seriously, Firefly, what the hell?Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-80557093187238907852010-03-20T09:31:35.019-07:002010-03-20T09:31:35.019-07:00I lived in China as well--and my Chinese students ...<i>I lived in China as well--and my Chinese students preferred the term Oriental (which they viewed as describing Chinese people specifically) as opposed to Asian, which they viewed as being too vague. </i><br /><br />Actually, I also like the term Oriental because it sounds more cool. I often use it when referring to things (and people, which can include myself) that are trying to capitalise on the mysterious and wonderful East image. <br /><br /><i>This is why I want Victorientalism in steampunk to die. I am all for critiquing Orientalism, and I am all for multi-cultural performances of steampunk. But we don't need another tradition of white folks (dominant group) re-imagining Oriental adventures (colonized narratives), especially with no actual Asian people involved in the making. This isn't creativity and it's not original - it's just a repeat of history.</i><br /><br />Firefly. Serenity.<br /><br />Not only are they mind-bogglingly popular, they're lauded as creative and innovative. No one even seems to notice the lack of Chinese people in the cast.Jeannette Nghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10369533969456798125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-2821310384605531002010-03-14T19:05:44.475-07:002010-03-14T19:05:44.475-07:00"Given her neologism’s adoption within the “s..."Given her neologism’s adoption within the “steampunk community,” we felt that this parallel bears further discussion. In particular, we would argue that many, although certainly not all, of the commodities which are construed as 'fetishizing' the Orient within steampunk (e.g., kimonos, belly-dancing, kohl, chopsticks; but should we add porcelain, silk, tea?) have, through a long (a millennium, in some cases) and multifaceted process of globalization, become elements of “World Culture” with no more substantial signification of “Eastern” than the ubiquitous “von” in steampunk aliases is of the “Germanic.” Thus, our discovery of a racist/imperialist agenda with the use of these objects might be construed as a function of our own desire to discover them. In short, it may be those looking for Orientalism within Steampunk who are in fact the Victorientalists."<br /><br />I call BS on this one. It's a rather wordier "you're the racist for pointing out the racism!" argument, which has been debunked elsewhere. Also, all of the things in that list - kimonos and such - are currently used as Asian signifiers/fetish objects. "Geisha" Halloween costumes are a very telling example. And have they started putting out chopsticks for use in Western restaurants that don't serve Asian food? Let me know when that starts happening.<br /><br />Argh.seitzkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16383559351073204534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-47614086362218983452010-03-14T18:13:20.085-07:002010-03-14T18:13:20.085-07:00Eloquent and closely reasoned. Thank you.
Having...Eloquent and closely reasoned. Thank you.<br /><br />Having read Said, my first reaction was "Using 'Orientalism' as praise? OMGWTF?!??!" You did a rigorous job of explaining why not.Jonquilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00394073543168209042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-74192354537181198032010-03-14T15:54:57.314-07:002010-03-14T15:54:57.314-07:00I am going to give you a chance and assume you are...I am going to give you a chance and assume you are posting in good faith (although, you may want to get an ID since I've disabled Anonymous posting - too many Anonymouses running around confuses me.)<br /><br />To be fair, I don't have problems with individuals of European descent using Oriental/Asian style elements in steampunk. Hell, I don't have problems with them doing so in everyday life. It's not my business how people dress themselves in their personal lives. What IS my business is how their individual actions add to larger patterns of commodifying pieces of my cultural identity, and yes, aesthetics, clothing and other such paraphernalia apply. <br /><br />It is the commodification of these elements I object to, which (a) profits members of the dominant group, (b) is often done without any true understanding of the source, and (c) does not promote any understanding between individuals on the meanings of these elements in ways that could be used to achieve racial parity. <br /><br />Racism is not merely "treating people differently by skin colour". It is a form of systemic oppression which actively favours one group over another - I don't mean this just in a white/non-white context, as it can also occur between groups. It is also manifested in active discrimination wherein a person is not valued as much as another, by virtue of their skin colour. Just as women continue to be dismissed on the basis of their gender (sexism) (but this is a cheap shot because it is the easiest analogy at hand). Orientalism and Asian fetishism contributes to these little discriminations by rendering us as "Other". <br /><br />And of course, once these elements become loosely commodified and can be owned by practically anyone, it becomes a bit alienating when members of the minority group would like to own those elements, to code themselves as part of a certain community... and find themselves unable to without exoticising themselves or coding themselves as Other or looking like a stereotype. People who use Asian elements may not <i>mean</i> for this to happen - but it does anyway, because intent doesn't matter in face of what <i>actually</i> happens: these elements being codified as commodities that can be used for the purposes of the dominant group. <br /><br />I can accept that this will happen in steampunk, being that it is part of the era, but I don't believe that it should go unquestioned, especially <a href="http://www.racialicious.com/2009/12/17/the-truth-of-lagerfelds-idea-of-china/" rel="nofollow">when it continues to happen in modern contexts</a>. Someone's <i>intent</i> (or lack thereof) shouldn't be a reason they get a free pass when they indulge in what is part of a pattern that contributes to systemic racism. <br /><br />This is why I want Victorientalism in steampunk to die. I am <i>all</i> for critiquing Orientalism, and I am <i>all</i> for multi-cultural performances of steampunk. But we don't need another tradition of white folks (dominant group) re-imagining Oriental adventures (colonized narratives), especially with no actual Asian people involved in the making. This isn't creativity and it's not original - it's just a repeat of history.<br /><br />Hope that helps. <br /><br />(And no, replacing the participants with folks who don't have equal power does not elicit an agreeable response from me. <i>Seriously!</i>)Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-36392735261792705622010-03-14T14:34:46.495-07:002010-03-14T14:34:46.495-07:00By 'belligerance', I suppose that to mean ...By 'belligerance', I suppose that to mean 'disagreement'. I may have posted a broad question, but as a historian, it is something I am curious about. A different perspective.<br /><br />Here's what I'm saying. You seem to have something against "white people" using Oriental* style elements in steampunk. I'm confused as to why you see that as racist. If a person uses, say, Chinese style elements, why is that racist, or even offensive? Offense is not by the action, nor the word, but by the <i>intent</i>. If you ask someone not to use a certain word (say, <i>Oriental</i>) and they keep using it in your presence regardless, it goes from simply a word (non-offensive) to intent (offensive).<br /><br /><i>I use the term Oriental here because it is the original term. I don't know what to use anymore, as Asian, Oriental, etc all seem to offend one person or another. Unfortunately this leads to the very real phenomenon of overuse and thus watering-down of the idea of "racism"</i>.<br /><br />Racism - treating differently purely by skin colour - is a very real thing, which, unfortunately, you seem to have experienced living in the US. However, I believe your use of the word <i>racism</i> is used out of context. Victorians were culturally racists - but what I'm asking is: how does applying Asian elements to clothing of that era make a person racist? If they have no ill intent behind it, it makes no sense.<br /><br />I am looking forward to your reply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-3267493012864811492010-03-14T08:48:46.533-07:002010-03-14T08:48:46.533-07:00I refuse to engage with that question. If you can&...I <i>refuse</i> to engage with that question. If you can't go look for yourself common 101s on <a href="resistracism.wordpress.com/racism-101/" rel="nofollow">what racism comprises of</a>, you should not be here. Articles abound describing power dynamics, historical basis for systemic oppression and how actual people are harmed as a result. Use the power of the Internet to find them. Your belligerence is not welcome here.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-66322576528929346752010-03-13T22:10:34.047-08:002010-03-13T22:10:34.047-08:00You say: Orientalism is "a pretty-sounding te...You say: Orientalism is "a pretty-sounding term, often used by well-meaning white people who don't have any clue just how racist the term is."<br /><br />How do you define 'racist' in this sense? A natural curiosity for different things should be celebrated, not condemned. And all but the most insulated cultures do it. The Han and Tang Chinese knew about the Roman and Holy Roman Empires (respectively). Modern Asian societies have grammatically incorrect English plastered all over everything. Am I to throw a similar tantrum about these, because things relating to European/American culture are being used in a different context?<br /><br /><i>seriously?</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-41242747967975376422010-03-13T19:37:38.265-08:002010-03-13T19:37:38.265-08:00Ooo, but then the hard work is parsing the respons...Ooo, but then the hard work is parsing the responsibility part. Because (I think) it can't be the Noblesse Oblige flavor of responsibility, or we're back to patronizing. And (I think) it shouldn't be the My ancestors crushed your ancestors so please let me be your biggest fan/rescue you now... because that gets creepy really fast. <br /><br />As far as silk goes, I feel more guilt towards the dead silkworms than the colonialist aspects of it... I guess because the colonial aspects of it are history (AFAIK... oo, look, a chance to educate myself. dammit.), while the worms are dying now. And yet, I still buy and wear it. But I guess that also suggests where my sense of responsibility lies: if a person is hurting in the here and now, I need to change. If invertabrates are being boiled alive... meh. Pass the ketchup.Alia Geenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-24407089208185697212010-03-13T18:32:22.755-08:002010-03-13T18:32:22.755-08:00Anonymous: Sorry, what do you not understand about...Anonymous: Sorry, what do you not understand about this blog? This blog is created specifically to deal with themes of racism and colonialism in steampunk, which takes inspiration from history, and is informed by the biases of today.<br /><br />Also, how exactly am I stopping others from revisiting the style? I'm not going to houses and ripping up fabrics and chaining folks. I'm just encouraging them to think about what they're doing, and ask themselves if that's what they really want to do, if it causes harm. <br /><br />Also, MOFF'S LAW IS IN EFFECT.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-25973299761093184712010-03-13T18:00:08.244-08:002010-03-13T18:00:08.244-08:00Steampunk and neo-Victorianism aren't historic...Steampunk and neo-Victorianism aren't historical Victorianism. They are fictional, romanticised views of the British Victorian era through the lens of such authors as Jules Verne and HG Wells. It's about fashion, style, manners and technology that never really existed in the mainstream.<br /><br />The true Victorian mindset was racist - and also extremely prudish and sexist. But we ignore those elements because it's not the mindset we're after. So don't stop others from revisiting the styles, manners and other likable elements of the Victorian era just because there are some things about the attitude of the era that you don't like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-67027811214862078012010-03-13T17:54:40.614-08:002010-03-13T17:54:40.614-08:00Thank you, Alia Gee =) Owning your privilege and y...Thank you, Alia Gee =) Owning your privilege and your responsibility towards minority groups is such an incredibly hard thing to do, but in the long run, it's worthwhile, because it helps us learn how to get along. <br /><br />Welcome to Silver Goggles!Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-37512311662466559772010-03-13T17:42:50.789-08:002010-03-13T17:42:50.789-08:00If someone says "Ow, that hurts, please stop ...If someone says "Ow, that hurts, please stop doing that," then the moral/respectful person says, "Oh, sorry, I'll stop." They don't say, "It doesn't *really* hurt, you just think it does. Here, let me explain in big words why you are wrong and dumb and oh, yes, oversensitive, too." I'm allowed to admit that I am oversensitive; as a polite and courteous individual (and one thing about Steampunk is the ideal of polite society it upholds and expects from its participants) you aren't allowed to say the same about me. :Pbbblt. (No, really. It's dismissive and patronizing and gets my knickers in a twist.)<br /><br />I bellydance, and you have never seen a whiter belly. I went to a workshop recently and it bothered me the number of white women living out this exotic/sexual fantasy there. And I see in Steampunk similar impulses to explore forbidden fruits (Exploration and conquest! Rah! We don't have to be PC because PC hasn't been invented yet! Yea!) and it does make me uncomfortable and I'm really glad other people are thinking about this topic, too. I don't know how one can explore the power dynamics that Imperialist Europe created without offending someone/everyone. <br /><br />I *think* that taking personal responsibility for the consequences of one's actions is the first step. Being aware (or at least being open to the idea when someone else takes the time to point out) that your fun could be painful to someone else, and considering what you can or want to do to mitigate, mediate, or moderate your fun so that it is more fun for more people (and less ignorant/hurtful in general) can't be a bad thing... right?<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />alia gee (pro-fun candidate for Queen)Alia Geenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-39127927519577646902010-03-13T16:06:17.613-08:002010-03-13T16:06:17.613-08:00Thank you, James! You are giving me one more reaso...Thank you, James! You are giving me one more reason to ache for academia, which is access to that particular journal!<br /><br />I had previously only ever seen "Victorientalism" with the steampunk context, but now I shall have to bug people who have access to journals to find this article for me. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, and welcome to Silver Goggles!Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-78166749788198266232010-03-13T10:50:31.022-08:002010-03-13T10:50:31.022-08:00Given her neologism’s adoption within the “steampu...Given her neologism’s adoption within the “steampunk community,” we felt that this parallel bears further discussion. In particular, we would argue that many, although certainly not all, of the commodities which are construed as 'fetishizing' the Orient within steampunk (e.g., kimonos, belly-dancing, kohl, chopsticks; but should we add porcelain, silk, tea?) have, through a long (a millennium, in some cases) and multifaceted process of globalization, become elements of “World Culture” with no more substantial signification of “Eastern” than the ubiquitous “von” in steampunk aliases is of the “Germanic.” Thus, our discovery of a racist/imperialist agenda with the use of these objects might be construed as a function of our own desire to discover them. In short, it may be those looking for Orientalism within Steampunk who are in fact the Victorientalists.<br /><br />Subsequent academic analysis of O'Connor's argument raised an issue with which we agree, in this context and in that of steampunk – namely, that the reprehensible theoretical predilections of literary critics don't change the sociopolitical reality of 19th century British and European Imperialism. The "post-postcolonial criticism' called for by O'Connor is subject to the obligations of politically responsible academic discourse. Luckily, steampunk as a literary genre and a form of grassroots amateur theatre performance is situated firmly within such postcolonial discourses. Whether by our continued love of the deft social criticism inextricably soldered among the pistons and clackery of works by Gibson and Sterling, Stephenson or Powers, or by the fact that we are cognizant inhabitants of a globalizing era participating in an ironic pageant of our own culture's historically insinuated hegemony, we remain conscious of the social issues naturalized by the social institutions (imperial armies, totalitarian regimes, medical bureaucracies) we pantomime. <br /><br />At least that’s one thought. We look forward to reading more of your commentaries and following your thoughts on silver goggles.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Parliament & WakeUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16620197012167603334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-62398807778506885672010-03-13T10:49:32.980-08:002010-03-13T10:49:32.980-08:00We’ve been reading the recent conversations regard...We’ve been reading the recent conversations regarding Orientalism in steampunk with great interest. As upper middle class WASPs, we tend to be hesitant to weigh in too heavily on debates over racialized perception; but did want to bring one article to your attention, along with some thoughts which it inspired.<br /><br />The article, “Preface for a post-postcolonial criticism” is by Erin O’Connor and can be found in volume 45, issue 2 (Autmn 2003) of Victorian Studies. In the research for your editorial you probably already came across this; but if not, we believe it is the origin of the term Victorientalism (or at least one origin, it is entirely possible that it arose de novo later and elsewhere) and has some interesting points to make regarding your concerns. To summarize, O’Connor argues that there is a tendency within the scholarly community to look for – and thus, to find – examples of fetishism of the “Orient” within the literary works of the 19th century in order to establish that this literature was not just created within an Imperialist culture, but was Imperialist literature, per se. She argues that this aggressive campaign has been so successful largely because of a desire to find the exotic other within the Victorian canon – and that this results in a fixed obsession on perceived Eastern influences. It is this – the fetishizing not of the Orient by Victorians, but of the Orient within Victorian literature by scholars of Victorian literature – which she names as “Victorientalism.” If you have not read the piece it deserves your attention, but here is one paragraph which nicely reiterates one of her conclusions.<br /><br />“The rote character of this branch of Victorian studies might be read as an analytical type of the leveling that has been seen to accompany the colonialist spread of Western mass culture, the devastating loss of tradition, ritual, and belief that has become one of the principal preoccupations of postcolonial writing. Cultural imperialism may even be said to find its interpretive analogue in the critical imperialism of postcolonial literary studies, whose profitable investments in the Victorian novel may be read as a textual instance of reverse colonization. As such, the sheer uniformity of this work should alert us to the possibility that something akin to Said's Orientalism is at work here. Call it Victorientalism-the mining of a distant, exotic, threatening but fascinating literature to produce and establish a singularly self-serving body of knowledge elsewhere, a body of knowledge that ultimately has more to tell us about the needs of its producers than about its ostensible subject matter.” (O'Connor 2003)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16620197012167603334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-44046736223658696372010-03-13T08:11:51.998-08:002010-03-13T08:11:51.998-08:00Certainly we can never get away from imperialism i...Certainly we can never get away from imperialism in the performance of steampunk. Even as I re-arrange the political geography of the world in my head by re-imagining power differentials in Asia, I cannot escape the fact that somewhere, someone will be oppressed.<br /><br />This does not make imperialism acceptable. I use this exercise to <i>critique</i> imperialism. I enjoy the analysis, but recognize the performance is a heinous things. <br /><br />Were the majority of people indulging in steampunk to belong to marginalized groups, sure, I can buy the performance of imperialism as mockery. As it stands? White people don't get to play racists and expect non-white people to be okay with it, because racism is still alive and well. <br /><br />If you walk into a room and know that three out of ten people have knives, but you didn't know who, and you are most likely to be a target of these knives, you generally end up being suspicious of everyone. The only safe thing to do is remove the knives.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-9256439026087341382010-03-13T06:15:32.298-08:002010-03-13T06:15:32.298-08:00It seems to me questionable that considering a cer...It seems to me questionable that considering a certain genre as a reflection of a certain (i.e.Victorian English) culture must imply, that the genre is either marginalized, or imperialistically claimed by this culture. It is merely taken as an Object, which is inevitably put into distance by the century.<br /><br />While yes, it falls into the category of Fantastic genres, we shouldn't marginalize the characteristics of the Steampunk sub-genre itself - otherwise, its definition as a species inside the Fantastic&Sci-Fi genus would be redundant.<br /><br />To re-create an Imperialist worldview, in a form how it could appear in Victorian era, is thus a kind of Steampunk performance - and of course, the means of critique, actualised by our contemporary culture&her own themes.<br /><br />Dr.Said, in his vigour and determination, commenced a direct attack on the perverse world-view of Imperialism. However, his targets had been filled with authentic views, not mere imitations. To attack these mocking (and thus highly critical) imitations is to misunderstand them.<br /><br />It seems to be similar if we attacked Hašek's Good Soldier Švejk for promoting the idea of loyalty to royal authority.<br /><br />Thank you for your attention.al-Caidhttp://kyberia.sk/id/3980355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-71234787010339676392010-03-11T14:40:10.863-08:002010-03-11T14:40:10.863-08:00It is definitely assimilation when a newcomer is f...It is definitely assimilation when a newcomer is forced to give up their ways and values, just so they can accepted. Not only that, but it doesn't necessarily have any benefits either - I can act American all I want, but that doesn't stop people from treating me like a constant foreigner. <br /><br />There is no way to decisively place that kind of conversation. But it's interesting when people reject what you think is normal as weird and foreign, eh? Now imagine living it all the time. <br /><br /><b>Could anybody else wanting to comment generally on appropriation please take it to Intersectionality Dreaming? Thanks.</b>Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-89396410097266088822010-03-11T13:22:38.908-08:002010-03-11T13:22:38.908-08:00Some of the earlier discussion about appropriation...Some of the earlier discussion about appropriation have got me thinking about the opposite - assimilation. <br />The idea of people moving from one culture to another and trying to fit in, and the repercussions of NOT assimilating and the effect it has on a culture.<br />When in Rome, and all that. In the US - Americans require that you follow custom in the American way. Is that appropriation when newcomers adopt those customs. <br />I recall having a conversation with a man in Ghana who had visited the US and came home with all these thoughts and ideas that he learned living in Ohio for two years. He was baffled by his parents who rejected what he told them about refrigeration. Where does this fall in the conversation of assimilation and appropriation?Emiliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06272703738196906003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-68704229055485685592010-03-11T09:06:16.957-08:002010-03-11T09:06:16.957-08:00That's a truly unfortunate, and marginalizing ...That's a truly unfortunate, and marginalizing attitude to take towards the genre. <br /><br />Steampunk is a subgenre of science fiction and fantasy. To say that since most of these works are written in English means it must be Anglo-centric defeats the purpose of writing scifi/fantasy in the first place, which is to expand the imagination. <br /><br />The English-speaking world is not limited to the Anglo-Saxon world. By saying that it is, you advocate an imperialistic, privileged viewpoint that refuses to acknowledge minority groups who want to retain their cultural identities whilst co-existing with a larger, white-dominant narrative. <br /><br />Which is, sad to say, a pretty racist attitude to have, and could use some adjustment. <br /><br />Whilst I agree with you that the issue of imperialism is to be expected within steampunk, it is by no means unquestionable or acceptable. It must always be challenged and analyzed, in order for the genre to be of any true worth. I must therefore direct you to <a href="http://rydra-wong.livejournal.com/7386.html" rel="nofollow">commentary surrounding RaceFail</a>.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-76569826530368862992010-03-11T02:05:58.442-08:002010-03-11T02:05:58.442-08:00As the most works&comments on Steampunk are wr...As the most works&comments on Steampunk are written in English, a certain Anglocentrism is not only expectable, but also acceptable. The term itself comes from the English-speaking authors (Gibson, Jeter), although the ideas it denotes can be applied to any culture in the early industrial period.<br /><br />To apply an approach of Post-Colonialist studies to a genre, which actually imitates the highest period of Imperialism, is in my opinion a misfortunate effort. In so far as Steampunk tries to criticize the remnants of Colonialist and Ethnocentrist thinking, it does exactly in this imitative, mocking way.<br /><br />Furthermore, the Steampunk promotes the Subject, his own perceptions and understanding, freedom of an Individual applying the knowledge to overcome the barriers of conservative Reaction and Nature. Subjective values include the ethnicity and differentiation of the out-groups as well.<br /><br />Victorientalism is thus in no way a vice to condemn, but rather a commendable step in developing the depth of meaning and sharpness of critical power in the Steampunk genre.<br /><br />Thank you for your attention.al-caidhttp://kyberia.sk/id/3980355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-53074208283516008602010-03-10T19:46:50.151-08:002010-03-10T19:46:50.151-08:00I know there was a huge controversy around First N...I know there was a huge controversy around First Nations peoples being showcased during the Olympics, because it seemed to portrayed the First Nations is being treated equally when they simply are not. Similarly, with many depictions of Asians in a lot of media, it gives the illusion that we are treated equally, but when you hand the control of the narrative over to Asians themselves, they show a different story!<br /><br />Re: Britain, yes, exactly, it differs from region to region. I've noticed in the above comments that many folks outside of North America do not see anything wrong with using the term "Oriental". I do believe, in fact, that many people think the exoticism within the term is a good idea! (which is great, if you are living in said country and can benefit off gulling tourists, but not so great when you are a minority living in a mostly-white country!) This internalism isn't really a problem if you're not in the minority. It doesn't matter if it's derogatory or not - a positive-sounding stereotype is still a stereotype!<br /><br />I, for one, think reverence is part of exoticisation. You're still placing a specific, unequal value on us that can carry over and be internalized. It's great that values can carry over across continents between individuals so easily, and it's great because it benefits cultures when its individuals are various, but remember where you come from! It is every bit as special as whatever it is you admire! (See the post before this one.)<br /><br />As I've said, time and again, I can't tell you how to behave, what to do, what not to do. But I can tell you that so long as you are willing to treat people as people, and pay attention to them for themselves (not just because they're Asian or whatever), you'd be on a pretty good track.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-16126151593676667372010-03-10T18:25:43.364-08:002010-03-10T18:25:43.364-08:00This is very interesting, and I think that the com...This is very interesting, and I think that the comoditization of culture is something that also applies to the way that we Americans treat many traditional European cultures as well. This has definitely spurred some thought for me, especially about what it means to make traditional crafts for the tourist market. If I buy an Orenburg lace shawl or Estonian mittens, does this mean I am cheapening that culture? Does the fact that I am a knitter make it less so? What about the First Nations people profiled during the Olympics in Vancouver? Does the display of their traditions to outsiders cheapen them like a side-show, or does it give them a venue for teaching their traditions in a time when they are passing out of memory in the face of modern technology and colonial culture? I'm not sure I can wrap my head around all of the different implications without a good deal of further thought.<br /><br />Still, I have some comments I would like to make on your discussion of the word "Oriental". I have just come here for the first time from Steampunk Workshop, so I don't know where you are from, though from the "About Silver Goggles" section, I see that you are a person of color, probably of Malaysian descent, at least. I am guessing from your article, and from your use of the term "African-American" that you are American as well. The reason I say this is that it impacts the use of the term "Oriental". I am American, and as such I have been taught that "Oriental" is for rugs and "Asian" is for people. However, when I lived in Scotland, I was told that in Britain, "Asian" refers to South Asian (Indian subcontinent) people and "Oriental" refers to East Asian people. In fact, I am told that "Asian" is considered to be more pejorative and "Oriental" more complimentary, though that compliment does have something of exoticism ingrained in it. I suspect that the difference in esteem has something to do with the contrast between the British Raj and Chinese, who were never ruled by Western colonists, and whom I have seen depicted in period political cartoons as an equal player to the major colonial powers.<br /><br />My point is that depending on the context, "Oriental" may not be a derogatory term, but it does continue to have connotations of exoticism and otherness. Certainly, I think we know that "separate but equal" never is, yet I think that many Westerners were and are drawn to what they see and know of eastern culture. If there is reverence associated with it, does that make it acceptable, or is the otherness still degrading? Is it still objectification, and therefor insulting? My African-American roommate in college told me once that our school was almost too color-blind. We were so careful to treat everyone the same that we ignored that there was any distinct cultural difference; she wanted that difference to be acknowledged and respected.<br /><br />I am honestly very interested in this topic and what think on it. Also, as a person who is genuinely interested in other cultures and wants to learn more about them, and as someone whose personal beliefs align more with cultures on the other side of the globe than my own, I would really like to know how to approach other cultures sensitively, without seeming to anyone that I think their ceremonies are the living equivalent of some kind of curiosity cabinet.Gaidighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11137796009019992269noreply@blogger.com