tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post2362474214166158509..comments2024-02-27T03:15:13.798-08:00Comments on Silver Goggles: Things This Blog Doesn't Cover (But Wishes It Could)Jhahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-67580318696877275462011-11-26T12:21:35.275-08:002011-11-26T12:21:35.275-08:00Ah, okay. Well, I've kind of seen situations, ...Ah, okay. Well, I've kind of seen situations, especially in the feminist blogosphere, where debate is used as a manipulative tool to wear down the unprivileged, by treating their lives experiences as something debatable, something to change one's mind and feelings about. In an environment that actively promotes debate and discussion as a good, <a href="http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/10/17/come-one-come-all-bloggers-bear-it-all-out-feminist-and-social-justice-blogging-as-performance-and-bloodshed/" rel="nofollow">call-out culture can very quickly become a performance</a>, and a poisonous environment for unprivileged people who are already exhausted from LIVING their unprivileged lives, but now have to justify their feelings.<br /><br />There are also different dynamics in different contexts, and different choices, too. I wouldn't hesitate to be openly hostile and shut down a classmate, for example, but if it's someone I have a prolonged friendship with, I just point out their problematic statement, make sure they understand what I've said, and move on. Because I've made the decision that the hurt they're dealing me is negligible compared to the rest of our friendship. There ARE, however, friends whom I've known all my life, who are absolutely problematic. I keep up with them on superficial levels, but I don't expect them to change, nor even trust them to do so. And my friendship is not contingent on their changing.<br /><br />It IS very very difficult to learn how to rein in anger and learn when to just drop it. I learned how to do it because it's easier on my mental health to stop expecting a two-way street when it's clearly only going one way. I try to maintain a low threshold for bullshit, and high tolerance for people who obviously want help. But I do it because 1) I can! and 2) I would fast quit anti-racism if I didn't. <br /><br />You're not alone in being unable to simply leave it at that, though: my friend <a href="http://jaded16india.tumblr.com/" rel="nofollow">Jaded16</a> is very similar! And it's not a bad thing exactly... it's just a different way of doing the same work. You have do what feels right for you, given your circumstances, and there're no easy ways out, alas.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-86480932377645575242011-11-26T09:37:06.028-08:002011-11-26T09:37:06.028-08:00Haha, I always read your full posts! So don't ...Haha, I always read your full posts! So don't worry about it being tl;dr.<br /><br />I just wanted to address this, <br /><br />"The other thing I would like to address is that you've posited changing someone else's behaviour as your goal. And, well.... that ain't gonna work! They're not going to change unless they WANT to (see above). They're people too, and it's kinda... not cool to force people to see things your way if they don't want to? "<br /><br />I think there's a difference between coercing and persuading a person, and that's why debate's so important. My background is in politics where, you know, EVERYONE is calling out everyone else for being wrong on some level. So I'm used to confronting people and explaining what they did is wrong (and vice-versa.) Sometimes people change their minds, sometimes they don't. But I always try, and I don't blame myself for their failures. I just don't see trying to persuade someone as wrong--it's really tough, though. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see debate and discussion as a good thing that brings about new ideas, not a manipulative tool. <br /><br />I found your post really enlightening, but I don't think I have the ability to make my anger known and simply leave it at that, especially if it's a friend that says this (and if this is a friend I've known since I was a child.)I suppose I'll have to keep calling him out, and if he refuses to understand and continues to hurt me and the ones I love, I might have to cut him out of my life too...that's not something that would be easy.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12074340962347314499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-3149584491399960672011-11-26T00:49:42.469-08:002011-11-26T00:49:42.469-08:00I wish I had an easy answer to that, to be honest,...I wish I had an easy answer to that, to be honest, if they don't want to accept what you're saying? They don't want to accept it. They're going to get defensive anyway, no matter what you say or how you say it. You get to make a decision on whether you want to continue that particular instance of a conversation, or walk away. In online conversations, this is fairly easy. <br /><br />However, if you have to have prolonged contact with this person, you WILL have other chances to keep calling them out and make clear to them that you will not let them off the hook. You can just say, "that was a shitty thing you said" and leave it at that, and let them decide how important you are to them. And you have to decide how valuable "getting along" is to you in this particular relationship. <br /><br />What, I think, makes the most difference is your relationship to the privileged person, and how invested the two of you are in maintaining it. I do most of my education by talking into the ether here, or by delivering presentations that the audience can just take or leave. The few people I've had to confront over and over in real life eventually get cut off when they show no signs of improvement. Sometimes, a diversity of tactics help as well, and again, depends on the context of your situation and what you have available to facilitate the education. <br /><br />The other thing I would like to address is that you've posited changing someone else's behaviour as your <i>goal</i>. And, well.... that ain't gonna work! They're not going to change unless they WANT to (see above). They're people too, and it's kinda... not cool to force people to see things your way if they don't want to? <br /><br />I've personally found it a hella lot more productive to simply have my anger made clear and acknowledged on some level. That way, I don't have to deal with runaround justifications and I don't have to take responsibility for someone else's continued shitty behaviour because I've somehow "failed" to change their mind. And thus, it's less skin off my back. I still get pissed off and I still express that anger. That doesn't guarantee the offender will validate or agree with my anger, but I'm not responsible for their feelings about my anger: I'm responsible for expressing my anger, and making sure it is out there and heard. Speaking out is difficult enough; nobody needs the added burden of trying to persuade someone else that the anger is justified.<br /><br />Which, I guess, is tl;dr for, it's really not pragmatic to try to change someone's mind if they're not invested in the rightness of the change.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-82959735174886734732011-11-25T23:35:07.696-08:002011-11-25T23:35:07.696-08:00Hi Jha,
Great post, as usual. I'm currently i...Hi Jha,<br /><br />Great post, as usual. I'm currently in a conversation with someone, and you mention that people in privileged positions want us talk to them in "soothing, maternal tones." I totally agree that's true, but I also wonder what the alternative is to that.<br /><br />While I don't believe it's a POC's responsibility to explain privilege, the questions often come to us anyway. Or, no questions come to us and we're left to voluntarily speak up when we see something oppressive. <br /><br />But the thing is, if I was to express my anger honestly (and sometimes I do), then the person I'm speaking with will get defensive, bottle up and refuse to accept what I'm saying. It's not my responsibility that s/he's an idiot who refuses to understand, but from a totally pragmatic approach, if you want that person to change his or her mind, then what alternative to do we have than to speak about things in soft baby voices? If my ultimate goal is to persuade another person to change his/her behaviour, then how can I do that without compromising my anger and sense of personal injustice while also managing to persuade that person? I know it's not my job to convert everyone, but I'm also compelled to speak up when I see something's wrong.<br /><br />Any thoughts?<br /><br />www.politiciansathogwarts.blogpost.comSarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12074340962347314499noreply@blogger.com