tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post2011561447763785105..comments2024-02-27T03:15:13.798-08:00Comments on Silver Goggles: Racist Things Steampunks Are Not Immune To: Silent Tolerance of RacismJhahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-26062629870330330482013-11-07T04:13:49.269-08:002013-11-07T04:13:49.269-08:00Khul.
I was a hardcore steampunker, a solid fan o...Khul.<br /><br />I was a hardcore steampunker, a solid fan of Abney Park.<br /><br />The one thing I have to ask is, if Mr. Brown holds us in such low esteem, why would he want to use our sound and describe his music as "gypsy" (shudder)?<br /><br />Oh, I remember: the majority pretty much detest us but love our music. I am certain that, if they could, they would exterminate us (which I believe is starting in Europe) while keeping our music.<br /><br />"Ah, too bad this awesome music had to come with these sucky people. Well, we will still have their music after we have exterminated them... that's all that matters."Nobody's homehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05280733995729889039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-73204944792837312432012-10-12T19:05:21.015-07:002012-10-12T19:05:21.015-07:00i like how you think you can come into a space cre...i like how you think you can come into a space created by POC in steampunk for POC in steampunk and dictate to them how they're supposed to feel about oppression.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760676361150531866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-76849745877796197662012-10-12T19:02:46.978-07:002012-10-12T19:02:46.978-07:00Hello fellow PAFP (Privileged As Fuck Person)! I k...Hello fellow PAFP (Privileged As Fuck Person)! I knew it was only a matter of time before someone responded this way either to Tainopunk's or this article. Since Tainopunk asked me to read your reply and comment if I wished, I will do so.<br /><br />I know this line of thinking you're going through. Someone you admire or something you like has been so thoroughly thrashed by a group of people crying foul. You check it out (since it concerns things you love) and see they're making a mountain out of a molehill. However, being the good, balanced, progressive, colorblind, post-racial person you are, you decide to try and mediate the situation using facts. Good, hard facts you learned in some history class at some point. It's perfect! You're showing how understanding and sympathetic you are while still defending the non-offensiveness of what you love!<br /><br />Congrats, you've only proven everything. Yes, it's because you're white. No, it's not "reverse racism".<br /><br />It's hard to see from where we stand in life, but if you take the time to examine the unfiltered world, you'll realize it doesn't matter how many international friends you have, how long you went to school or lived in an area, or how much you believe in "liberty and justice for all".<br /><br />WHITE PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE MORE POWERFUL THAN OTHERS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WERE BORN<br /><br />Recognizing this doesn't mean you turn into an evil, mustache-twirling villain from a cartoon bent on spreading oppression. It means you can start reprogramming to break out of your systemic programming. You are part of this system of oppression, and recognizing how intrinsically oppressive you are--even when you don't mean to be--is part of breaking the cycle for everyone.<br /><br />Does it suck? It can, if you think of it as losing power. However, you're really not losing anything; everyone else is just gaining the same amount as you. Wolfwumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00368957103857734700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-87612823840849696712012-10-12T17:34:57.515-07:002012-10-12T17:34:57.515-07:00Were you crying as you wrote this? Because you use...Were you crying as you wrote this? Because you used the word "sadly" a lot. I'm sorry to hear you chose to be saddened by the situation.<br /><br />~"Thankfully as a culture we have largely stamped out the use of "Indian" for "Native American""<br />Try again? My current Contemporary History textbook book, published only two years ago and still thought acceptable for use in a college prep school, refers to Native Americans of any tribe as "Indians."<br /><br />~"I imply by this that it is permissible for a Roma person to call another Roma a gypsy without offense (and please forgive me if I am wrong). Unfortunately, this is comparable to a woman affectionately addressing another woman as "Hi, bitch" or an African-American calling another a nigger in humor."<br />Words like "Gypsy" and "nigger" belong to the minorities they are used against to reclaim. It's not my job or your job, both as non-Roma/non-Romanis, to tell them to forget about the word and move on. You don't get to dictate what is "best" for them to do with the word, because that is exercising your privilege over them and your (possibly subconscious) belief that you know what's best for "those people." <br /><br />~"he or she has to take in mind whether or not the audience will know terms such as Roma, Bhote, or Amhara and whether or not using these terms will cause confusion"<br />Just because you see a word you don't know and react with "DAFUQ?" doesn't mean someone else will. Perhaps someone will see the word Rroma, think "What's that?", do some research, and have their eyes opened. Look! Education just happened for another person, while you were busy scratching your head. Another issue is - Robert Brown wasn't trying to reference Rroma people. He was operating on a hurtful stereotype, so this argument's rather irrelevant anyway.<br /><br />~"Until the culture as a whole agrees precisely what they wished to be called, it is hard for an outsider to know exactly how to address the group" <br />So ASK, instead of throwing up your hands in defeat - by this you imply, 'I'm too lazy to make an effort to be decent, so I'll just use whatever word I like.'<br /><br />~"if a word is offensive to someone, we should all stop using it in all cases"<br />The word "fuck" is offensive in certain situations to certain people. Right, so let's stamp out cussing.<br /><br />~"Unfortunately it looks as if all parties reacted with offense, accusations, and hurt feelings on all sides"<br />Right, I CHOSE to be offended that Robert Brown made a private, polite (at least on my part) into a public matter in which he demonized me and lied to his fans about what I said. Sorry I CHOSE to be offended that he judged my friend, a girl he'd never met, as "overly dramatic," "looking for attention," and "distantly related."<br /><br />~"I am saddened for your friend who has been driven away from steampunk, but she overreacted to the song."<br />Sure, she overreacted to a word that's made it impossible for her mom to find a job in the US, a word that's been spat at her and used to deride her when she chooses to wear headscarves and long skirts. Sure, she just overreacted to oppression. I'll be sure to tell her a white woman on the internet has it right - that she can just CHOOSE not to be hurt by oppression!<br /><br />TL;DR - Take a seat. You are speaking from a pedestal of privilege, promoting "peace" and "tolerance" in favor of a bigot who doesn't even have the decency to react politely and maturely to the kindest of emails. This is a space where that garbage isn't tolerated.thetemperamentalsteampunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288305599466086700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-60685565440618637352012-10-12T15:50:04.757-07:002012-10-12T15:50:04.757-07:00You are arrogantly wrong and insensitive and ignor...You are arrogantly wrong and insensitive and ignorant in many points of your argument and I believe I have a "Read These Before Engaging" tab above which you really should have read before writing this comment. <br /><br />But good to know that if I stab you one day with a knife, you absolutely have the ability to choose not to be hurt.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-77266475133088132552012-10-12T15:06:44.422-07:002012-10-12T15:06:44.422-07:00I have been discussing your blog post with a few s...I have been discussing your blog post with a few steampunk friends of mine and I wanted to add my comments and thoughts. <br /><br />As someone with many international friends, I do strongly believe it is important to be sensitive of the way different ethnic groups prefer to be addressed. Thankfully as a culture we have largely stamped out the use of "Indian" for "Native American" and most people realize that "Oriental" applies to carpets, not people. Ethnic groups often choose a moniker that is specific to their culture group or area, preferring terms such as Dakota, Hmong, or Inuit to generic terms such as Asian or Native American. <br /><br />However, this in effect creates tens of thousands of cultural permutations. For a writer or storymaker reaching a broad audience, he or she has to take in mind whether or not the audience will know terms such as Roma, Bhote, or Amhara and whether or not using these terms will cause confusion. In general, we tend to use broad, familiar terms such as Asian or African simply because these are the ones that permit the greatest amount of clarity, particularly if what we are writing or saying does not allow us the space to explain a more specific term. <br /><br />Another issue is that quite often, the specific cultural group does not always collectively agree on what term they prefer. Among the Hispanic community, some take offense at the term "Chicano" while others do not mind it. Until the culture as a whole agrees precisely what they wished to be called, it is hard for an outsider to know exactly how to address the group. <br /><br />Thirdly, you point out that Roma people find it insulting when non-Roma people use the term "Gypsy". I imply by this that it is permissible for a Roma person to call another Roma a gypsy without offense (and please forgive me if I am wrong). Unfortunately, this is comparable to a woman affectionately addressing another woman as "Hi, bitch" or an African-American calling another a nigger in humor. If a culture determines that a certain term is offensive to them, it would be best if they cease using it entirely because by using it within their culture group, they are inadvertently sending the message that the term is okay to use. Please, let's all agree on this: if a word is offensive to someone, we should all stop using it in all cases; it's confusing and wrong to have a word that some people can use without offense but others are forbidden from using. Continuing to use offensive words in any context merely strengthens their place in language rather than stamping them out. <br /><br />In this regard, I must correct your statement that words do not come in and out of fashion. A good look at the Oxford English Dictionary is solid proof that language and word meaning are incredibly flexible. In Shakespeare's day a "harlot" was simply a young girl or boy and up until fifty years or so ago, "queer" and "gay" did not indicate sexual orientation. When a language becomes fixed and unchanging, it dies a quick death. <br /><br />This particular incident could have been a great teaching moment for all involved. Unfortunately it looks as if all parties reacted with offense, accusations, and hurt feelings on all sides. If people are looking for an offense, they will find one readily, and it appears the people involved all found much to be offended by. I am saddened for your friend who has been driven away from steampunk, but she overreacted to the song. Captain Roberts could have also handled the situation with more tact and grace. This entire situation could have been resolved with understanding and tolerance on all side, but sadly it became a vitriolic battle. <br /><br />No one can make you angry, insulted, or offended - you choose to become angry, insulted, or offended. Sadly, the people involved in this incident all chose to be offended by it and much hurt and damage has been caused. Melissa McDermotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06517018399943459273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-61378589277648914932012-10-12T08:59:58.131-07:002012-10-12T08:59:58.131-07:00The idea that we should "separate the artist ...The idea that we should "separate the artist from the art" is highly problematic and imho yet another manifestation of white male supremacism (since women artists have never been allowed to be total assholes to the extent male artists in Western culture traditionally have been) that should be discarded with, well, every single other manifestation of white male supremacism. I could write a whole blog post about this obnoxious, dangerous, and creativity-poisoning notion. Maybe I will.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01413541711301513897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-29328767714477553572012-10-12T08:49:19.467-07:002012-10-12T08:49:19.467-07:00Thank you both for the call-out. Disappointing to ...Thank you both for the call-out. Disappointing to find out that a performer I enjoyed seeing live is such a colossal prick, but it's incentive to find (and support) other bands and performers.MacAuslanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00370442118185311081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3235431266233602422.post-81442688378396964982012-10-11T18:43:37.546-07:002012-10-11T18:43:37.546-07:00This is tainopunk. You put it better than I could ...This is tainopunk. You put it better than I could have - we need not an individual calling out of persons such as Robert Brown, who are so cocooned is this shell of white approval that they will never listen to the minority voice, but a large movement that revamps the racism and privilege perpetuated in steampunk subculture.<br />Robert Brown is a symptom, but he's a damn big one. Steampunk community, it's time for us to collect "the Captain," and people like him.thetemperamentalsteampunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288305599466086700noreply@blogger.com